Thursday, 25 February 2010
Information technolgy talk
Kira Cafe http://www.kira.org/
[9:00] Vic Michalak: Welcome to Kira Cafe and to today's session of KISS (Kira Interdisciplinary Science Seminar).
[9:01] Vic Michalak: Kira Institute is devoted to studying how scientists in diverse fields of study can learn how to understand each other and work together on complex problems. See www.kira.org for details…
[9:01] Aurora Kitaj: hello everyone
[9:01] Vic Michalak: Hi Aurora-san....
[9:01] Archivist Llewellyn: The last talk was pretty good and this one sounded even more interesting ....
[9:02] Vic Michalak: Thank you... I thought it was interesting as well... of course I am just the facilitator...
[9:02] Vic Michalak: and a 110101010101 to you too! :)
[9:02] Vic Michalak: Our discussions today will be in typed chat and I will record the transcript. Please feel free to comment or ask questions during the discussion.
[9:02] Vic Michalak: http://slvirtualed.net/KISS/ is my new blog for transcripts....
[9:02] Alfred Kelberry: my binary interpreter isbroken today :)
[9:03] Vic Michalak: It contains all transcripts from the beginning back in July.....
[9:03] Be Ewing: I cannot see or control my avatar today ... please bump me wherever so I am not in anyone's way
[9:03] Aurora Kitaj: sorry phone brb
[9:03] Vic Michalak: ....but I also intend to update that site with "mini-lessons" so you do not have to slog through the transcripts... !!:)
[9:03] Archivist Llewellyn: Be just turn around and you should be fine
[9:03] Vic Michalak: np
[9:03] Vic Michalak: ----------
[9:04] Vic Michalak: In our last sessions we examined how DNA and mRNA work in a cell to transmit the "message" contained on DNA to the ribosome...
[9:04] Alfred Kelberry: (you're doing fine, be. peacefully staring at the fireplace :)
[9:04] Vic Michalak: The fireplace feels nice...
[9:04] Vic Michalak: ...and how this message is interpreted there by tRNA to create proteins.
[9:04] Vic Michalak: In this and the next session(s) we will examine how telecommunications systems like local area networks and the Internet work.
[9:04] Archivist Llewellyn: Oh my.... Moron Scientist??? What a name!
[9:05] Vic Michalak: Hi Moron... (hope it is pronounced MorON)...
[9:05] Alfred Kelberry: maybe me mistyped "mormon"? :)
[9:05] Vic Michalak: The interdisciplinary twist of our dission will be comparing the Internet to how DNA and RNA work in a cell! :)
[9:05] Moron Scientist: Sorry, just caught the adress to me as I left. What was that?
[9:05] Vic Michalak: http://slvirtualed.net/KISS/ is the blog URL
[9:05] Archivist Llewellyn: We were noting your name, wondering what it means
[9:06] Moron Scientist: What about it?
[9:06] Vic Michalak: Welcome, Zon... come join us... find a nice seat anywhere....
[9:06] Zon Quar: ty, hi all
[9:06] Vic Michalak: In so doing we may discover new ways to improve telecommunications or to use DNA/RNA in human-created systems!
[9:06] Archivist Llewellyn: Is it supposed to be a criticism of scientists?
[9:07] Vic Michalak: Only those that act that way?
[9:07] Vic Michalak: ----------
[9:07] Moron Scientist: Sounds like a humorless scientist speaking. I would be criticizing myself if it were that.
[9:07] Vic Michalak: As you recall...
[9:07] Vic Michalak: DNA contains a "message" that consists of instructions for how to make things the cell needs, such as proteins.
[9:07] Moron Scientist: Busy day. Gotta run.
[9:07] Vic Michalak: Okay... thanks for dropping by...
[9:07] Vic Michalak: DNA contains a "message" that consists of instructions for how to make things the cell needs, such as proteins.
[9:08] Vic Michalak: These instructions are written with only 4 symbols (base pairs A, T, C, and G)!!
[9:08] Vic Michalak: That is what I (and others) find amazing...
[9:08] Vic Michalak: ----------
[9:08] Vic Michalak: --> Now, for this session...
[9:08] Vic Michalak: Before we can properly discuss how a message like an email or this typed chate is transmitted and received, we need to understand what that message looks like.
[9:09] Be Ewing: is it possible for our minds to reprogram our DNA?
[9:09] Vic Michalak: Hi Strider... nice to see you....
[9:09] Strider Villota: Thanks Vic...same here :-)
[9:09] Vic Michalak: Be... you have stumbled on a wondergful question....
[9:09] Vic Michalak: ...of course we reprogram our minds all the time....
[9:10] Vic Michalak: ...but I am not aware of this actually changing the DNA....
[9:10] Vic Michalak: ...which is a good thing....
[9:10] Vic Michalak: I would first like to discuss how a message is encoded and stored in a computer system, just as we discussed how DNA encodes and stores its message.
[9:10] Joanna Wombat is Online
[9:11] Pooky Amsterdam is Offline
[9:11] Vic Michalak: [My sstem is acting slow... if I crash, I will return in 10 mintues... hope not... cross my avatar's fingers...]
[9:11] Vic Michalak: First question: How many symbols (like A,T,C,G in DNA) are used in a computer or are transmitted and received in telecommunications systems?
[9:11] Vic Michalak: ??
[9:11] Zon Quar: 2 ?
[9:12] Vic Michalak: Okay... how about at the very core... (yes, I was thinking of two...)
[9:12] Vic Michalak: What we call 1s and 0s....
[9:12] Vic Michalak: Unlike DNA, which has 4 symbols (T, A, C, G)
[9:13] Vic Michalak: (and U if you count RNA)
[9:13] Vic Michalak: Almost everyone has heard of "1"s and "0"s. What do we mean by a "1" or "0"? That is, what is the purpose of significance of them?
[9:13] Vic Michalak: ??
[9:13] Vic Michalak: Let us look at examples....
[9:13] Vic Michalak: DNA has four "states" - T, A, C, or G.
[9:13] Be Ewing: on or off
[9:13] Vic Michalak: How many "states" are there for a traffic light?
[9:14] Zon Quar: 5
[9:14] Vic Michalak: ??
[9:14] Zon Quar: red
[9:14] Zon Quar: green
[9:14] Zon Quar: yeööow
[9:14] Zon Quar: blinking
[9:14] Zon Quar: off
[9:14] Zon Quar: lol
[9:14] Vic Michalak: haha....
[9:15] Vic Michalak: Yes, Troy.... back in the "analog" days....
[9:15] Kim Chihuly is Offline
[9:15] Vic Michalak: A traffic light might be thought of as having three "states" - red, yellow, green...
[9:16] Vic Michalak: Although some people see yellow and think GREEEN -- go faster... :)
[9:16] Zon Quar: slow green
[9:16] Vic Michalak: True.... flipping switches... but most modern computers work with two primary states I would say....
[9:17] Vic Michalak: The simplest way to encode information is by the presence of absence of something - two "states" - reprsented by a 1 and 0.
[9:17] Vic Michalak: We call this a "binary" system because of the two states... (as opposed to the "decimal" system o 0-9)
[9:17] Zon Quar: simpler ?
[9:18] Vic Michalak: As Troy asked, why not G, 4, and #?
[9:18] Zon Quar: we r simpler than nature ?
[9:18] Archivist Llewellyn: Be, In response to your earlier question.... There might be a connection between mental/emotional/physical stress and DNA replication and repair....
[9:18] Vic Michalak: Well, 1 and 0 are just abstractions of real events....
[9:18] Solomon Mosely is Online
[9:19] Vic Michalak: Zon... nature is pretty simple as its core -- only 4 symbols in DNA to make up ALL of its instructions....
[9:19] Vic Michalak: ...and only a handful of elementary particles to make up the whole universe...
[9:19] Zon Quar: but we use only 2
[9:19] Vic Michalak: Yes... "1" and "0" could be "dot" and "dash" like in Morse code....
[9:20] Vic Michalak: So, again. 1 and 0 are abstractions (like "G", "4" or "#")
[9:20] Vic Michalak: ...but in the physical world you can think of them in some instances as the presence or absence of electricity.....
[9:21] Vic Michalak: That is the way they were first represented.....
[9:21] Alfred Kelberry: (troy, yet on the basic level eniac was still binary, operating decimal digits :)
[9:21] Vic Michalak: So in Morse code a "dot" or "dash" (could be called a "1" or "0" -- same thing) was the presence of the flow of electricity or not....
[9:22] Vic Michalak: But ---- how else might a 1 or 0 be represented??
[9:22] Zon Quar: switch is on or off..yes makes sense
[9:22] Vic Michalak: See the illustrations behind me....
[9:22] Vic Michalak: Troy.... do you know if this was continued with other computers of the 1940s?
[9:23] Be Ewing: point and circle
[9:23] Archivist Llewellyn: The number of base letters or numbers alone traditionally determines the number of possible combinations... Yet that changes when you add in other factors like stops and starts... Computer code and DNA code have both
[9:23] Newbab Zsigmond is Offline
[9:23] Vic Michalak: As a trivial aside, by the way, a university later put all of the functions of the ENIAC on a chip (I think in the 1970s)....
[9:24] Vic Michalak: Archivist.... yes, intersting idea....
[9:24] Archivist Llewellyn: The number of possible combinations determines complexity
[9:24] Newbab Zsigmond is Online
[9:24] Vic Michalak: In Morse Code for example, the "Start" is AAAA (or dot dash dot dash dot dash dot dash)....
[9:25] Vic Michalak: Troy... yes, I believe so... quaternary....
[9:26] Vic Michalak: Okay, so, returning to the question ---- besides electricity on or off, how else can a "1" or "0" be represented?
[9:26] Vic Michalak: And who cares about 1 and 0?
[9:26] Vic Michalak: What do they do for the computer?
[9:26] Vic Michalak: ???
[9:26] Icarusfactor Scientist: setting level say 2 volts on 4 votls off or vice versea
[9:26] Be Ewing: point and circle
[9:27] Icarusfactor Scientist: doe snot have to be 1 and or absolute 0
[9:27] Zon Quar: switches current on and off ?
[9:27] Alfred Kelberry: (troy, from wiki: "ENIAC used ten-position ring counters to store digits; each digit used 36 vacuum tubes, 10 of which were the dual triodes making up the flip-flops of the ring counter.")
[9:27] Vic Michalak: Icarusfactor.... yes... on the physical level (Layer 1 or 7 in the OSI Refereence Model), a 1 or 0 is a certain amount of voltage....
[9:27] Archivist Llewellyn: You know who would know lots about this.... George Gamow!
[9:27] Vic Michalak: Troy.... would be an interesting communications system, but not very fast....
[9:28] Alfred Kelberry: (then take a look at a ring counter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_counter)
[9:28] Archivist Llewellyn: Book excerpt: "As it happened, the deciding factor burst into the tight circle of DNA researchers in the guise of the ebullient, emigre Russian physicist, prankster, military consultant, and near alcoholic, George Gamow. Gamow had been heavily engaged with coding during the war and remained in regular contact with the military in the 1950's. When visiting a laboratory at Berkeley, he encountered Luis Alvarez, who excitedly showed him a copy of Watson and Crick's article. Gamow glanced through it and was fascinated (Kay, 2000, p. 131). He soon wrote to Watson and Crick, who dismissed him as a crank. But, Gamow was not easily dismissed, and his first letter contained the following thought: "If your [i.e., Watson and Crick's] view is correct each organism will be characterized by a long number written in quadrucal (?) system with figures 1, 2, 3, 4 standing for different bases ... This would open a very exciting possibility of theoretical research based on combinatorix [sic] and the theory of numbers!' "
[9:28] Osprey Therian is Online
[9:28] Alfred Kelberry: decimal presentation was like a middleware
[9:28] Vic Michalak: An interesting note in history....
[9:29] Archivist Llewellyn: ""Gamow had made another contribution. We eventually realized that solving the code could be viewed as an abstract problem, divorced from the actual biochemical details. Perhaps by studying the restrictions on the amino acid sequences, as they became available, and by watching how mutants affected a particular sequence, one could crack the code without having to know all the intervening biochemical steps. Such an approach seems natural to a physicist ..." (Crick, 1988, p. 93). In this frame of mind, Gamow soon devised a code, which came to be called the Diamond Code. Largely innocent of biology, Gamow presumed that the genetic code would reside in the physical configuration of the surface of the double helix. He believed its diamond-shaped voids could provide docking points for the molecules required to assemble amino acids. Francis Crick soon dismantled Gamow's idea, but the notion that the double helix should be viewed as a code--to be cracked by intrepid researchers--remained (Kay, 2000, pp. 136-139). "
[9:29] Vic Michalak: Yes... that is a good analogy in my book....
[9:29] Vic Michalak: Ahem....
[9:29] Vic Michalak: Back to the question of 1s and 0s....
[9:29] Oasis Hoisin is Online
[9:29] Vic Michalak: What good were dots and dashes in Morse Code?
[9:29] Vic Michalak: Anyone?
[9:29] Alfred Kelberry: "and near alcoholic" :)
[9:30] Archivist Llewellyn: Gamow's approach using combinatorics is much like computer cryptography
[9:30] Vic Michalak: Yes, on the physical level.... analogous to the voltage level of a 1 or 0 on the network....
[9:31] Vic Michalak: --> The key to this whole thing is that there is an AGREED upon pattern of 1s and 0s that mean something....
[9:31] Vic Michalak: ....just as there was an AGREED upon pattern of dots and dashes that meant somthing....
[9:32] Osprey Therian is Offline
[9:32] Vic Michalak: Troy... I will vote for that! :)
[9:32] Vic Michalak: So...... what kinds of things can 1s and 0s represent???
[9:32] Vic Michalak: [This feels like herding worms... :) ]
[9:33] Vic Michalak: [boisterous bunch today....]
[9:33] Zon Quar: words ?
[9:33] You: Was that a questino?
[9:33] You: 1 and O can represent any system of differences
[9:33] You: Provided enough space
[9:33] Vic Michalak: The question is "What can 1s and 0s represent?"
[9:33] Osprey Therian is Online
[9:33] PatriciaAnne Daviau is Offline
[9:33] Zon Quar: anything ?
[9:33] Be Ewing: anything
[9:33] Vic Michalak: Zon said, "Words" ---- yes, by way of the symbols that make up the words....
[9:34] Vic Michalak: .for one things that 1s and 0s represent.....
[9:34] You: As for words that means just strings, not meanings
[9:34] You: 1 and 0 can struct any finite state machine
[9:34] Vic Michalak: SO..... as in Morse Mode.... an "A" was "dot dash".....
[9:34] Icarusfactor Scientist: normaly 0 and 0 would represeant a finite space as opposed to a analog space or data.
[9:34] Icarusfactor Scientist: 1 and 0 ^
[9:35] Vic Michalak: Yes, Robert.... you are starting to get back to the thgouths of the 1930s....
[9:35] Archivist Llewellyn: 1 and 0 can represent anything pretty much in the ASCII or UNICODE systems
[9:35] Zon Quar: anythign we agree
[9:35] Vic Michalak: Troy.... haha... semantical gotcha.....
[9:35] Vic Michalak: Archivist, yes.... that is where I am headed.....
[9:36] Icarusfactor Scientist: but limited by the space givien to it by its system.
[9:36] Icarusfactor Scientist: a system that uses 1 or 0 is the limiting factor.
[9:36] Osprey Therian is Offline
[9:36] You: Well 0 and 1s can also represent any image of finite pixels
[9:36] Archivist Llewellyn: Unicode Charts: http://unicode.org/charts/
[9:36] Vic Michalak: So the KEY intellectual leap here is that if everyone can agree that a pattern like 10 represents an "A" in the Latin alphabet, then we can use 1s and 0s to represent complex thoguths....
[9:37] Icarusfactor Scientist: a system that uses the 1 or 0 will produce errors while using said analog pi.
[9:37] Vic Michalak: Now.... another question..... how MANY things can a pattern of two 1s or 0s represent?
[9:37] You: That depends on the size of storage
[9:37] You: if you have x spaces they respresent 2 to the power x things
[9:38] Vic Michalak: Troy....if we cannot agree, then there is no standardiztion... people had to work throught that from the 1960s-1980s...
[9:38] Vic Michalak: Troy.... yes, only 4 things with patterns of two 1s and 0s....
[9:38] Vic Michalak: How many things can be represented by patterns of 8 1s and 0s?
[9:39] Icarusfactor Scientist: not only size of storage but length of each operation performed on the 0 or 1
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol is Online
[9:39] You: 2 to the8th
[9:39] Velazquez Bonetto is Online
[9:39] Archivist Llewellyn: Unicode can emcompass letters, numbers, symbols and even different language scripts... So it does not matter if language is agreed upon (like a single dictionary or other established guide) as long as it is agreed on in other contexts
[9:40] Vic Michalak: YEs.... so in the 1960s an AGREED upon table of 8 1s and 0s patterns could represent 256 things --- which is to say all the symbols in many European languages....
[9:40] You: Thus UTF=8
[9:40] You: UTF-8
[9:40] Vic Michalak: This was the ASCII table, which was used until the 1980s... (and stil used if only European languages are used)...
[9:41] Vic Michalak: Troy.... yes, EBCIDIC was a proprietary IBM system.... they were the "big cheese" and had their own system for mainframes....
[9:41] WendyOfNeverland Fussbudget is Offline
[9:42] Vic Michalak: So... in deference to Aurora-san.... what if there were languags (many of them) that did not use Latin symbols?
[9:42] Vic Michalak: How could you represent symbols in other languages?
[9:42] Vic Michalak: ??
[9:42] Archivist Llewellyn: I mentioned that above... with language scripts
[9:42] Vic Michalak: Language scripts?
[9:43] Vic Michalak: Scripts that showed symbols?
[9:43] Moron Scientist: How do you represent the symbols in Japanese?
[9:43] Archivist Llewellyn: Script = alphabet
[9:43] Archivist Llewellyn: like Hebrew
[9:44] Moron Scientist: Not all languages have alphabets
[9:44] Osprey Therian is Online
[9:44] Vic Michalak: Moron... yes, that is my question.... if eight 1s and 0s can only represent 256 symbols, you cannot represent very many languages....
[9:44] Archivist Llewellyn: hehe upside down letters
[9:44] Vic Michalak: Troy.... how did you do that??
[9:44] Osprey Therian is Offline
[9:44] Vic Michalak: Troy of course has the answer....
[9:45] Vic Michalak: "Unicode" had up to 16 1s and 0s.....
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol is Offline
[9:45] Moron Scientist: この会話はおもしろくない
[9:45] Archivist Llewellyn: Chinese
[9:45] Vic Michalak: ...which can represent 64K (65323, I think) symbols....
[9:45] Moron Scientist: Japanese
[9:45] Vic Michalak: Yes....
[9:45] Archivist Llewellyn: ah
[9:46] Vic Michalak: 65,000 symbols can represent over 100 different languages, such as Japanese and even Egyptina hieroglyphics....
[9:46] Vic Michalak: ...but not Klingon or Navi I do not think... :)
[9:47] Vic Michalak: But we are still talking abstracts here.....
[9:47] Vic Michalak: How do you physicallly represent a 1 or 0?
[9:47] Vic Michalak: Cool!
[9:47] Vic Michalak: Right to left?
[9:47] Alfred Kelberry: ǝɟɐɔ ɐɹıʞ
[9:47] Moron Scientist: 世界こんいちわ
[9:47] Moron Scientist: and in Japanese
[9:47] Alfred Kelberry: neat, troy - thanks
[9:48] Vic Michalak: Do Arabic programmers use that for their first programs? :)
[9:48] Alfred Kelberry: привет
[9:48] Vic Michalak: I love a muti-lingual conversation....
[9:48] Vic Michalak: So.... how do you STORE a 1 or 0?
[9:48] Vic Michalak: (See illustration behind me)
[9:48] Vic Michalak: haha.....
[9:48] Moron Scientist: In a 1 or 0 box?
[9:49] Vic Michalak: Yes, that is one method....
[9:49] Vic Michalak: haha....
[9:49] Vic Michalak: great crowd today.....
[9:49] Archivist Llewellyn: Moron, I never said all languages use alphabets, I wes defining "scripts" when Vic asked about languages
[9:49] Icarusfactor Scientist: not only Store but transport and manipulation process of the 0 and 1 as well
[9:49] Vic Michalak: ahhh....
[9:49] Vic Michalak: Yes, Icarus....
[9:49] Moron Scientist: OK, don't get huffy about it.
[9:49] Vic Michalak: Well, let us start back a bit.....
[9:50] Vic Michalak: Were Morse Code messages stored in the 1800s?
[9:50] Archivist Llewellyn: I am not huffy. I am clarifying.
[9:50] Alfred Kelberry: basically anything that can distinguish two states
[9:50] Moron Scientist: Whatever.
[9:50] Icarusfactor Scientist: hello clair :P
[9:50] Vic Michalak: Yes, that was one way to store them....
[9:51] Vic Michalak: How about in early computers? How were 1s and 0s stored?
[9:51] Icarusfactor Scientist: on the back side of your hand
[9:51] Rose Springvale is Online
[9:51] Vic Michalak: Icarusfactor.... I am sure that has used too (ala Palin)
[9:52] Archivist Llewellyn: Moron, I don't appreciate ascribing "feelings" to statements of fact. Just because I am female does not mean I respond emotionally like that.
[9:52] Be Ewing: human memory
[9:52] Vic Michalak: One very early way to store things was to create a tape with a thin layer or magnetic particles on it and change the orientation of the particles so one configuration was a "1" and an unordered pattern was a "0"...
[9:53] Alfred Kelberry: troy, sorted by usage, i assume
[9:53] Vic Michalak: Troy.... yes, Morse Code had an "unpredictable" number of 1s and 0s, which is why the next advance was the Baudot code with 5 1s and 0s (predictable) for each character...
[9:53] Be Ewing: NCR machine
[9:54] Vic Michalak: Baudot code was used for "ticker tap" machines back in the 1920s-1930s.....
[9:54] Vic Michalak: ...for journalist news and stock reports and all...
[9:55] Vic Michalak: So.... on floppy disks and hard drives, we STILL store 1s and 0s by patterns of magnetic particles.....
[9:55] Vic Michalak: Troy? Really? I was not aware of where that terminology originated!
[9:55] Icarusfactor Scientist: what is a floppy disk
[9:55] Icarusfactor Scientist: :)
[9:56] Icarusfactor Scientist: as to that what is a hard isk
[9:56] Icarusfactor Scientist: disk^
[9:56] Vic Michalak: haha.... an ancient device that was like a mini-hard drive....
[9:56] Vic Michalak: This is dating me, but does anyone remember 8 inch floppy disks?
[9:57] Icarusfactor Scientist: yes
[9:57] Be Ewing: yes
[9:57] Vic Michalak: Troy... cool... always like to learn things new....
[9:57] Icarusfactor Scientist: when you measured hard disk in ft with cpm
[9:57] Alfred Kelberry: i vaguely remember 5 inches
[9:57] Archivist Llewellyn: I have been considering if/how complex ordering/coding systems could compare like cryptography and protein folding
[9:57] Vic Michalak: Okay... so come "old school" computer nerds in here if you remember 8 inch floppies (I still have on on the shelf in my office archive section)...
[9:58] Alfred Kelberry: vic, what is on it? :)
[9:58] Vic Michalak: Archivist! You have stumbled on my next topic --- protein folding and origami!! --- if we can ever get through DNA and telecommunications... !! :)
[9:59] Archivist Llewellyn: oh ok
[9:59] Icarusfactor Scientist: was it 180k been a long time
[9:59] Vic Michalak: Troy.... I remember it well... I am still playing "Starflight II" on my computer(!) from about 1986....
[9:59] Vic Michalak: ...binary game....
[9:59] Icarusfactor Scientist: they also where not double sided
[9:59] Alfred Kelberry: oh my, vic! :)
[10:00] Archivist Llewellyn: I did not really stumble on it... I have been thinking about the comparisons of DNA and computer code for some time... I have one cryptography publication and am working on a second....
[10:00] You: This is going to be a long blog post
[10:00] Vic Michalak: Well, folks, this has been fun.... but it is now 1000 SLT! We willl have to continue our discussion of how 1s and 0s are stored and encode information and how that information gets transmitted over the Interet until next KISS session!
[10:01] Archivist Llewellyn: Is your next talk the one on protein folding?
[10:01] Icarusfactor Scientist: yes has been a good one
[10:01] Be Ewing: Vic - thanks
[10:01] Alfred Kelberry: thank you, vic. we should do more of these "nostalgia moments" - it feels good :)
[10:01] Vic Michalak: Archivist... yes.... I thought protein folding and origami would be a great interdisciplinary sciencet topic.....
[10:01] Archivist Llewellyn: Great ... Count me in!
[10:02] Vic Michalak: I hope that I can get an origami program to work in SL!!
[10:02] Vic Michalak: That way I can give eveyone a copy....
[10:02] Archivist Llewellyn: nice!
[10:02] Alfred Kelberry: troy, looks like a duck to me :)
[10:03] Archivist Llewellyn: I wonder if you could make an origami avatar...
[10:03] Vic Michalak: Okay.... welll... I must keep to the discipline of one hour talks.... so I appreciate everyone coming today....
[10:03] Jon Gallais: Thanks Vic
[10:03] Alfred Kelberry: good idea, archi
[10:03] Vic Michalak: OH!!! NEXT KISS is next week..... because we were postponed from last week.....
[10:03] Archivist Llewellyn: ok bye and thanks!
[10:03] Aurora Kitaj: thank vick
[10:03] Aurora Kitaj: vic
[10:03] Vic Michalak: So please come NEXT WEEK.....
[10:03] Aurora Kitaj: thanks
[10:03] Vic Michalak: Thanks again for your participation.....
[10:04] Vic Michalak: THis would be nothing if all I did was stand here with no one here! :)
[10:04] Alfred Kelberry: thank you, vic. and have a wonderful day!
[10:04] Aurora Kitaj: yes indeed
[10:04] Vic Michalak: You too....
[10:04] Vic Michalak: See you all.... take care... stay warm... please return next week for the exciting saga of how the Interenet works...
[10:05] Vic Michalak: ...and how it compares to how DNA works...
Rober1236 Jua the Cyber Trekker of Second Life