Wednesday, 30 September 2009
Another chat in Open Habitat
[6:12] Rober1236 Jua is Online
[6:14] Annie Dunham: Confrontation with hostile energy has a very different effect on a person who is confronted (in the same place by the same person) with a loving energy.
[6:15] Marvin Macbain: What does "cold intelligence" versus warm organic fuzziness have to do with hostile versus loving? Or do you intend a connection between these distinctions?
[6:15] Annie Dunham: In this virtual world our sense of smell is rendered useless, as is our sense of taste, our sense of touch, and our sense of hearing in rendered very close to useless as well. But as humans, as animals, we adjust.
[6:15] Rober1236 Jua: We also lose our 3-D vision
[6:15] Annie Dunham: I think there is a clear connection between the two analogies.
[6:15] Rober1236 Jua: our sense of temperature
[6:16] Rober1236 Jua: its all just eyeballs and ears
[6:16] Annie Dunham: That would go along with touch, temperature that is, I'm not sure what you mean by losing our 3-D vision.
[6:16] Annie Dunham: I believe I see three dimensions of my avatar at this moment we are speaking.
[6:16] Annie Dunham: Perhaps you meant it in a more specific way.
[6:17] Marvin Macbain: I think he means stereoscopic vision.
[6:17] Marvin Macbain: Allowing direct depth perception.
[6:17] Rober1236 Jua: Yes the factt we have 3-D eyes
[6:17] Rober1236 Jua: also I find that when I stich images from SL together in photosynth I get imperfect 3-D images
[6:17] Annie Dunham: Ok, then even the main sense we use in-world, sight, even that is curtailed.
[6:17] Rober1236 Jua: as compared to RL
[6:18] Annie Dunham: In a certain way.
[6:18] Rober1236 Jua: something is kind of wrong with basic rendering of 3-D in SL
[6:18] Rober1236 Jua: its good enough but I am having trouble getting photos that capture 3_D well
[6:18] Annie Dunham: Uhuh.
[6:18] Marvin Macbain: Well Annie, you seem to be saying that we miss out on a lot in a virtual environment.
[6:18] LadyGray Hykova: Oh by the way Rober and I are a hive identity
[6:20] Rober1236 Jua: We miss out a great deal
[6:20] Rober1236 Jua: but we fill that in with imagination
[6:20] Rober1236 Jua: SL is an imagined community
[6:20] Annie Dunham: I am saying that, Marvin, but that's more of the means to the end. The real point is that we are confronted first by a computer screen, then systematically confronted with more and more things that filter what senses are valuable etc....until we are actually in-game and are confronted with things the way I am confronted with Robert right now as I did not notice him arrive.
[6:20] Rober1236 Jua: with limited cues for its reality
[6:20] Rober1236 Jua: Dad had Here I am
[6:21] LadyGray Hykova: me too notice me Im really hot
[6:21] Annie Dunham: So what I'm saying is that we really don't miss out on anything because it is in our ability and in our nature to become immersed in experience, and computers and second life were designed to use/exploit this ability.
[6:21] LadyGray Hykova: I'm Rober's dream woman who follows him around
[6:21] Annie Dunham: Afterall, humans created computers and humans created Second Life.
[6:21] Rober1236 Jua: That immersion is called the Imaginary
[6:21] Marvin Macbain: One of the things I dealt with when I started up was my reaction to hyper-sexed female avatars.
[6:21] Rober1236 Jua: In Psychoanalysis
[6:21] Rober1236 Jua: There arer a number of studies and theories about just that experience
[6:22] Marvin Macbain: After a while I got pretty much desensitized.
[6:22] Annie Dunham: So what I'm saying is that rather than "missing out" on anything when in game, we actually deduct certain portions of ourselves (that would otherwise be active in, say, the airport you used in your earlier example Marvin) and we are actually not the same PEOPLE in world as we are out-world.
[6:22] LadyGray Hykova: Yuor imagination becomes formal and rigid
[6:22] Annie Dunham: We are actually different people.
[6:22] Annie Dunham: From ourselves.
[6:23] LadyGray Hykova: Do any of you mind if I bog this?
[6:23] Marvin Macbain: Well, I suppose that may happen in differing degrees to different people.
[6:23] Annie Dunham: And I would take issue to the idea that immersion is interchangeable with the world "imaginary," if that is indeed what you have put forth, Robert.
[6:24] Annie Dunham: I would disagree with that on an all-encompasing level.
[6:24] Marvin Macbain: bog?
[6:24] Annie Dunham: Bog?
[6:24] Annie Dunham: Like a marsh?
[6:24] LadyGray Hykova: blogs
[6:24] Annie Dunham: Hm?
[6:24] Annie Dunham: What?
[6:24] Rober1236 Jua: Well Psychonalaysic thinks about different orders of reality in which we place ourselves
[6:24] Rober1236 Jua: as children we see mirror images of ourselves and come to attach ourselves to them
[6:24] Annie Dunham: Hold your horses now, what's all this about bog and blogs.
[6:25] Rober1236 Jua: in time these attachments lead to placement in systems and structures, complex communites.
[6:25] Annie Dunham: Before I move onto something that makes sense I would like to know what you are talking about with these bogs and blogs.
[6:25] Annie Dunham: Um, directed to Lady and Marvin.
[6:25] Rober1236 Jua: We can sey hat when we accept the avatar as us we are entering SL on an Imaginary level
[6:25] Rober1236 Jua: Oh I have a blog
[6:25] Rober1236 Jua: its on my profile
[6:25] Annie Dunham: ...
[6:25] Rober1236 Jua: I blog all over SL
[6:26] Rober1236 Jua: and when I overhear an interesting conversation I like to blog it
[6:26] Marvin Macbain: I only asked the same question you did, Annie. I assume he means to appropriate some of the material from this conversation.
[6:26] Annie Dunham: was there a cross conversation going on that i missed?
[6:26] Rober1236 Jua: with you consent
[6:26] Rober1236 Jua: I would just post it all as is
[6:26] Rober1236 Jua: Well actually from the Lady's perspective
[6:26] Rober1236 Jua: This is a work machine so I can go to SL but not blog
[6:26] Marvin Macbain: sorry, she
[6:26] Annie Dunham: Sure, just include my avatar's name so I can find it.
[6:26] Marvin Macbain: No problem on my side.
[6:26] Annie Dunham: That's total informed consent, doctor.
[6:26] LadyGray Hykova: ]It will show up just like chat discusion
[6:27] Annie Dunham: Do your worst.
[6:27] Rober1236 Jua: It will just be word for work
[6:27] Rober1236 Jua: word
[6:27] Marvin Macbain: I am afraid I need to take a shower and get going to work :(
[6:27] Rober1236 Jua: I am intersting in this group and its discussion of identity
[6:27] Annie Dunham: If I start turning large and green when I get angry I'm going to find you, though.
[6:27] Rober1236 Jua: Well I will take my chances.
[6:27] Annie Dunham: No need to be afraid of the shower Marv. Good talking to you and cheers.
[6:28] Marvin Macbain: bye
[6:28] Annie Dunham: Ciao mate
[6:28] Rober1236 Jua: Okay getting ready to blog
Rober1236 Jua the Cyber Trekker of Second Life