Thursday, 25 September 2008
Talk on Communication Theory in SL
[14:11] Grey Blackadder: If you all don't mind, I feel more comfortable standing for these things
[14:11] Vilhelm Balhaus: np
[14:11] Filthy Fluno: go right ahead
[14:11] Azure Blackadder: np
[14:11] Grey Blackadder: ok good
[14:11] Grey Blackadder: can we all see?
[14:11] Mar Dwi: I can
[14:12] Vilhelm Balhaus: yes
[14:12] Azure Blackadder: yes
[14:12] Phillipp Beaumont: yes
[14:12] Filthy Fluno: yes
[14:12] ammapurna Baxton: yes
[14:12] Grey Blackadder: ok - that 's a quaorum
[14:12] Grey Blackadder: I’d like to talk to you today about some aspects of communication theory that I feel are relevant to our activities as artists and designers, either here in SL or out there in RL.
[14:13] Grey Blackadder: First of all, I’d better introduce myself and explain why I feel qualified to talk to you about this.
[14:13] Feline Falta is Offline
[14:13] Filthy Fluno: super
[14:13] Filthy Fluno: :) thanks
[14:13] Grey Blackadder: In RL I have an Honours degree in Visual Studies and the History of Art from Oxford Brookes University.
[14:13] Grey Blackadder: I lectured for 7 years in Art & Design theory at a tertiary college in Oxford and have had my own art related businesses in RL.
[14:13] Grey Blackadder: In SL, I operate a number of shops and I am an SLACC exhibitor.
[14:14] Grey Blackadder: Tonight’s (it’s night where I am anyway) talk is based on a lecture I used with my first-year graphic designer students, and I hope you will also find it useful.
[14:14] Grey Blackadder: Making art, making design, even making environments, can all be seen as acts of communication.
[14:14] Grey Blackadder: People look at a painting and talk about what “it means” to them, Advertisers try to tell us to “buy more of something”, even a building can “speak” to us. But just how well does the message get across?
[14:15] Grey Blackadder: Let’s look at some of the things that can affect this communication.
[14:15] IM: Hermes Kondor: :=)))
[14:15] Hermes Kondor gave you Snapshot : SL Art Community Centre, Lilac Island (36, 31, 22).
[14:15] Grey Blackadder: The first of these that I want to look at, and a personal favourite, is NOISE.
[14:15] Grey Blackadder: It was only after WW2 that people began to question the processes of communication, initially just the technology. In 1947 two researchers, Shannon and Weaver produced this analysis of command communication for the US military.
[14:16] Grey Blackadder: ...now let's see if the presentaion works..
[14:16] Osprey Therian is Online
[14:16] Grey Blackadder: ok
[14:16] Grey Blackadder: first slide
[14:16] Grey Blackadder: It shows us a “straight-through” relationship between the origin of the message and it’s destination. But they also identified another component in this relationship:
[14:17] Grey Blackadder: They characterised noise as being “anything that occupies the same channel as the message, but is not part of the message itself”.
[14:18] Rober1236 Jua blows his nose
[14:18] Grey Blackadder: anyone see that?
[14:18] Sasun Steinbeck: avatar noise :)
[14:18] Filthy Fluno: yes
[14:18] Filthy Fluno: i see it all
[14:18] Mar Dwi: yes, perfectly clear
[14:18] Vilhelm Balhaus: yes
[14:18] Grey Blackadder: Mr Bagley is n, or was, noise
[14:18] Filthy Fluno: likes your type fonts
[14:18] Grey Blackadder: ty
[14:18] Grey Blackadder: They characterised noise as being “anything that occupies the same channel as the message, but is not part of the message itself”.
[14:19] Grey Blackadder: so here
[14:19] Grey Blackadder: the noise was Mr Bagley
[14:19] Grey Blackadder: the message he disrupted is this seminar
[14:19] Grey Blackadder: Now at this point I had been going to contrive some slides to illustrate this - a mount with a hair trapped in it, or a painting hung crooked, but they looked exactly that, - contrived.
[14:20] Grey Blackadder: So instead I’m going to describe a recent visit Azure and I made to a quite prestigious art gallery that specialises in country themes – huntin’, shootin’ and fishin’ stuff.
[14:20] Filthy Fluno: cool
[14:20] Grey Blackadder: There we saw a beautifully worked botanical water-colour, with a random paint mark in the white space to the lower left. The trouble was that even thought it was an exquisite picture, the first thing you notice is this mark – I have absolutely no recollection of the subject of the picture, just that it was flawed.
[14:21] Sasun Steinbeck: oooo artsy activities
[14:21] Filthy Fluno: oy vey
[14:21] Grey Blackadder: Ah, I can hear you say, but this is a digital environment, there are no stray hairs, and everything is straight and lovely and we have no random marks! Ha! But we still get noise….
[14:21] Philippe Chaplin: called lag....
[14:21] Filthy Fluno: do you really think the painting was flawed?
[14:21] Vilhelm Balhaus: hahaha like the tree touching the screen right now
[14:22] Vilhelm Balhaus: ;)
[14:22] Grey Blackadder: . in the context in which it was hung - certain of it
[14:22] Grey Blackadder: now
[14:22] Grey Blackadder: let's look at this slide
[14:22] Grey Blackadder: anyone like to say why this has noise?
[14:22] Grey Blackadder: no?
[14:23] Hermes Kondor: Tha car ;)
[14:23] You: well you have to define what is the message first?
[14:23] Hermes Kondor: *the
[14:23] Sasun Steinbeck: the brick texture is showing through the painting?
[14:23] Grey Blackadder: how about the default wood textrue?
[14:23] Sasun Steinbeck: ahhh yes
[14:23] Mar Dwi: what is the subject? the painting, the building or the car?
[14:23] Vilhelm Balhaus: also well we see the tree texture disrupting the screen in the background
[14:23] You: Noise is a function of message
[14:23] Hermes Kondor: and the tops of the cars...
[14:23] You: there are many messages in this image
[14:23] Filthy Fluno: to me.. the wood texture only informs us more of the artist and possibly he's saying something with it
[14:23] Grey Blackadder: well the subject of my slide is the building
[14:23] You: so somethings are noise and message
[14:24] Grey Blackadder: but the subject of the building is "part of Amsterdam"
[14:24] Phillipp Beaumont: maybe because it´s breathing?
[14:24] Grey Blackadder: ok
[14:24] Grey Blackadder: let's look ata nother
[14:24] Filthy Fluno: k
[14:24] Hermes Kondor: And the point of view, could also be better
[14:24] Grey Blackadder: how about this?
[14:24] Filthy Fluno: rezzin
[14:25] Sasun Steinbeck: some texture glitch at the bottom of the building there
[14:25] Grey Blackadder: Exactly
[14:25] Grey Blackadder: ty Sasun
[14:25] Filthy Fluno: no birdies in the sky
[14:25] Filthy Fluno: nice one Sasun!
[14:25] Grey Blackadder: strobing textrues on overlapped prims
[14:25] You: So noise is an error in the design to be executed in SL
[14:25] Sasun Steinbeck smiles
[14:25] You: ??
[14:25] Grey Blackadder: in this context, yes Robert
[14:25] Hermes Kondor: A grey texture with a secondary pointcalling the atention of the viewer - the stiars
[14:26] Grey Blackadder: anythign that interferes with the effectiveness of the work
[14:26] Filthy Fluno: k
[14:26] Vilhelm Balhaus: I see
[14:26] Sasun Steinbeck: does it have to be unintented to be defined as noise?
[14:26] Grey Blackadder: admittedly the nature of SL reduces the random noise of RL
[14:26] Rober1236 Jua burps
[14:26] You: sorry
[14:26] Hermes Kondor: It doesn't have an importatn point of atention
[14:26] Filthy Fluno: lol robert
[14:27] Sasun Steinbeck: noise burp
[14:27] Grey Blackadder: and we can eradicate most of it by simply being better craftsmen
[14:27] You: if I made my iPod ring is that noise?
[14:27] You: If my iPod rings here because I want it to ring is that noise?
[14:27] Grey Blackadder: yes
[14:27] You: Its can't be intention
[14:27] Grey Blackadder: it's noise in the context of my presentaion
[14:28] You: you also have to define you point of view in the presentation then
[14:28] Grey Blackadder: noise is only a part of the issue though
[14:28] You: one person's noise is another free speech
[14:28] Grey Blackadder: there are others that are harder to address
[14:29] Grey Blackadder: I think that is a rather different questiion Robert
[14:30] IM: Aigloune Hastings: Dernier avertissement pr moi avant de partir: Kartoon déchire tout ce soir au 80's!!! que du bon et beau monde http://slurl.com/secondlife/Luna%20Paradise/137/233/23
[14:30] Grey Blackadder: ....intrusion and protest is noise in the strict sense we saw defined earlier
[14:30] Grey Blackadder: but then it invokes it's own message
[14:30] IM: supra Ling: ah ca sent le fréro qui veut dodoter lol
[14:30] Grey Blackadder: .....and is perhaps outside the scope of this particular presentaion
[14:30] You: maybe or maybe not
[14:30] You: its not easy to say what is and is not a message
[14:31] Grey Blackadder: I would like to move on to issues of meaning
[14:31] Filthy Fluno: amen to that robert
[14:31] You: Freud said everything was a message
[14:31] ammapurna Baxton: mgrhm
[14:31] sandra Minor is Offline
[14:31] Hermes Kondor: Sometimes, noise is a very important part of the message...It's a mtter of intention
[14:32] Grey Blackadder: can we perhpas explore some of this in an open session at the end?
[14:32] Hermes Kondor: *matter
[14:32] You: yes but ofcourse
[14:32] You: please
[14:32] Vilhelm Balhaus: Yes please lets
[14:32] Sasun Steinbeck: nods
[14:32] Vilhelm Balhaus: continue
[14:32] Mar Dwi: yes, let´s not drift to far away from Grey´s presentation now
[14:32] Grey Blackadder: I think that will be good
[14:32] Rober1236 Jua motions hand to please continue
[14:32] Grey Blackadder: ok Consider this
[14:33] GrahamRoss McCullough is Offline
[14:33] Filthy Fluno: great topic for discussion Grey.... it leads into many paths
[14:33] Filthy Fluno: :)
[14:33] Kyla Damone is Offline
[14:33] Grey Blackadder: ty
[14:33] Grey Blackadder: Each of us is defined by our experience, knowledge, ability and history – we are the sum of our experiences.
[14:34] Grey Blackadder: WE could represent this "envelope" with a circle
[14:34] Grey Blackadder: When two individual communicate effectively, that communication takes place in the space where our experiences overlap – simplest example of this is speaking in a common language.
[14:34] Mar Dwi: in simple english, I am represented by a circle=
[14:34] Mar Dwi: ?
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: ....these ideas were explored in the 1950's by a researcher called Wildur SChram
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: sorry
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: Wilbur SCramm
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: oh phoo
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: Schramm
[14:35] Grey Blackadder: He maintained for communiction to take place there must be an overlap of experience
[14:36] Grey Blackadder: and it is within that overlap that communication occurs
[14:36] Grey Blackadder: and where meaning resides
[14:36] Enigma Bombay is Online
[14:36] Grey Blackadder: so now
[14:36] Grey Blackadder: have a look at the next slide for a moment
[14:37] Grey Blackadder: and think about what a dog means to you
[14:37] Grey Blackadder: my goodness
[14:37] Grey Blackadder: I've gone deat
[14:37] Phillipp Beaumont: a best friend
[14:37] Vilhelm Balhaus: /loyalty, unconditional love, trust
[14:37] Grey Blackadder: deaf
[14:38] Grey Blackadder: ty Vilhelm
[14:38] followmeimthe Piedpiper is Online
[14:38] Hermes Kondor: Mine ...I love her...i have to walk her after the conference :=))
[14:38] Grey Blackadder: This is a slide of the "Theorbo Lesson"
[14:38] Grey Blackadder: Notice the dog in this picture? It’s there deliberately, not just as a bit of local colour, because the original audience for whom this was painted would know how to “read” it. A contemporary audience would have seen the dog as a metaphor for lust – an indication that this image is perhaps not as innocent as it might seem.
[14:39] Object: Thank you for requesting this information
[14:39] Grey Blackadder: In this example, we, the modern audience, have lost that vital area of overlap with the artist, we don’t see his original intended meaning.
[14:39] Vilhelm Balhaus: /very important point
[14:39] Grey Blackadder: .......there are other clues if you missed the dog - there's a discarded playing card on the floor
[14:40] Grey Blackadder: so meaning does not necessarily reside in the message even
[14:40] Grey Blackadder: but in the sudiences response to it.
[14:40] Grey Blackadder: My final point is perhaps the most demoralising……
[14:41] Grey Blackadder: Once we have made a piece of work and shown it to the world, we have no control over how people will interpret it…
[14:41] ammapurna Baxton: i can handle
[14:41] Grey Blackadder: Some of our audience may not see the world quite as we do, they may not even recognise our work as art at all.
[14:41] Mar Dwi: Why is that demoralising? To me that´s the fun part
[14:41] Grey Blackadder: All we can do is carry on making our art, our designs and constructing our spaces in the hope that some of it, just some of it, works as we intended it to….
[14:42] Grey Blackadder: ty everyone -
[14:42] Vilhelm Balhaus: /that's just how the very nature of how art works
[14:42] ammapurna Baxton: wow
[14:42] Vilhelm Balhaus: ty Grey
[14:42] Grey Blackadder: you have been my first sudeince for some time
[14:42] ammapurna Baxton: i like it
[14:42] Grey Blackadder: I hope you have enjoyed the show!
[14:42] ammapurna Baxton: :)
[14:42] Vilhelm Balhaus: Nice presentation
[14:42] Grey Blackadder: ty Vilhelm
[14:42] Mar Dwi: thank you Grey
[14:42] Phillipp Beaumont: thanx grey
[14:42] Mar Dwi: I do would like to know, what did the dog mean to the artist of this painting=
[14:43] Hermes Kondor: Thank you very much Grey
[14:43] Mar Dwi: ?
[14:43] Grey Blackadder: it was considered a metaphor for lust Mar
[14:43] Grey Blackadder: there are others in the same genre that show dogs coupling in the background
[14:43] Mar Dwi: oh, yeah I see. I missed that sentence
[14:43] Grey Blackadder: ah yes
[14:43] You: We still use the metaphor
[14:44] You: we say you dirty dog you or he is a dog
[14:44] Grey Blackadder: I'll post a transcript of this talk on my web site later
[14:44] Grey Blackadder: address on my profile
[14:44] You: Do the dog and we have an actual position in sex called well you all know
[14:44] Grey Blackadder: absol;utely Robert
[14:44] Sasun Steinbeck: fascinating topic, this could easily spawn quite a few long discussions :)
[14:44] Vilhelm Balhaus: Thank you Mar for the invitation and thanx again Grey for your interpretation
[14:44] Grey Blackadder: but we also have dogged determination
[14:45] You: The meanings are layers deeply in history forming a geneology that we can only every partially undesrstand
[14:45] Vilhelm Balhaus: Can't stay for discussion though
[14:45] Vilhelm Balhaus: bye everybody
[14:45] Sasun Steinbeck: bye bye
[14:45] Phillipp Beaumont: bye
[14:45] Mar Dwi: ciao Vilhelm
[14:45] ammapurna Baxton: bye
[14:45] Hermes Kondor: Bye Vilhelm :))
[14:45] Grey Blackadder: and it shifts Robert
[14:45] Grey Blackadder: a work today had a different meaning from when it was new
[14:45] You: Yes all the Deleuze and Delanda stuff
[14:45] Man Michinaga is Offline
[14:45] Sasun Steinbeck: how do we interpret old pieces where we have very little information about the culture and modes of interpretation of things that may have been symbolic to the contemporary audience but not a modern day audince? i.e. cave drawings
[14:46] Mar Dwi: Grey it´s been really nice to have noise explained in English. In Dutch the meaning of the word noise is diferent which makes understanding the theory more challenging
[14:46] Grey Blackadder: show a Victorian a Jackson Pollock and he would not even see a painting
[14:46] Sasun Steinbeck: even the meaning of the dog was totally new to me
[14:46] Hermes Kondor: Cave drawings have two important meanings
[14:47] Hermes Kondor: Survial and Spirituality
[14:47] You: The distance between artists and audience is always so great I see little difference between Pollock or a cave painting
[14:47] Hermes Kondor: The actual living and the After Death
[14:47] Grey Blackadder: but we can only look at them from a modern perspective
[14:47] Sasun Steinbeck: interesting
[14:47] Enigma Bombay is Offline
[14:48] Grey Blackadder: we map so much of our own concepts onto what we see
[14:48] Mar Dwi: yes I experiences that in my RL job all the time Grey
[14:48] You: well I I read a pre-modern perspect I can try to see through other eyes
[14:48] Hermes Kondor: Like Stonehenge, Lascaux and Altamira, are two important examples of Spirituality in Art
[14:48] You: my perspect in our time is my reading of others from whom I am infinitely seperated
[14:49] You: communication I think is ultimately a doomed effort
[14:49] You: but Culture is not
[14:49] Grey Blackadder: I think it was Foucault that told us it was "impossible to recover the mindset of the past"
[14:49] You: yes but he did still right books of history
[14:50] Grey Blackadder: nothing wrong there
[14:50] Mar Dwi: isn´t recovering the mindset of the past similar to recovering the mindsend of somebody else=
[14:50] Mar Dwi: ?
[14:50] You: he formed models of how French Rebulicans and Greek boy lovers cosntructed thigns
[14:50] Grey Blackadder: we need a apst to locate the present
[14:50] You: Mar taht is precisely the case
[14:50] Grey Blackadder: yes Mar
[14:50] You: 100%
[14:50] Sasun Steinbeck: I was reading that they recently discovered a rather advanced irrigation system built by native indians in America. No one knew they were so advanced in terms of agriculture. Might we not make the same mistake with their art?
[14:50] Grey Blackadder: but we are guaranteed more of that common ground, the overlap of Schramm's model
[14:51] You: In the artifact we try to find an intersubjective experience
[14:51] Grey Blackadder: or communicate one
[14:51] Azure Blackadder: Just as European explorers made that mistake with Inca, Indian and Chinese civilizations
[14:51] Grey Blackadder: not enough overlap
[14:51] You: This is the Hermeneutical school, that we seek common ground
[14:51] Sasun Steinbeck: exactly
[14:52] You: But lack of overlap maybe can be overcome
[14:52] You: and too much overlap hurts communication, we share too much bias
[14:52] Grey Blackadder: but overcoming it changes both parties
[14:52] You: Well with art one party is in the past of the event
[14:52] Grey Blackadder: we have to learn more and become the other
[14:52] You: and may not participate
[14:53] Sasun Steinbeck: it seems to make it extremely difficult to determine what's noise when there's that lack of overlap
[14:53] Grey Blackadder: are we anot all our first audience Robert?
[14:53] You: well we are an Other to ourselves
[14:53] Grey Blackadder: you will recognise noise Sasun
[14:53] You: this AV is like my own personality its something I put on to myself
[14:53] Grey Blackadder: it always detracts
[14:53] Azure Blackadder: I see noise in Art as something that spoils the effect
[14:54] Azure Blackadder: eg, drops of glue on a velvet cushion
[14:54] Grey Blackadder: lol
[14:54] ammapurna Baxton: :))
[14:54] Grey Blackadder: I rememeber that one
[14:54] Azure Blackadder: in an Art Degree show
[14:54] Osprey Therian is Offline
[14:54] Grey Blackadder: a graduation show too
Rober1236 Jua the Cyber Trekker of Second Life